My Fazer is dead =(

for some strange reason it won't start... well, it will, but when I turn it off it won't turn on again... even with warm engine... I'll ellaborate.

This started last year. I was riding to and from work every day with no issues at all. Then one day, she won't start. Seemed very wierd as it hadn't given me any clues to anything being wrong. I turned it over and over but it still wouldn't catch. Eventually she would get going and it would be fine for another week or so. Then it would happen again... and so the cycle continued.

Now I have to keep trying to get her started for 10 mins before she starts running. I did it the other week. Played with the ile switch, thinking it was a mixture problem. Eventually I got her started and kept it running for about 10 mins. She was ticking oover like nothing had gone wrong. No peaks or troughs when she was idling, just sitting there, happy as larry to be running. I was as happy as larry too as I thought I had solved the problem. I went to don the apparel and thought 'What if she doesn't start again?' So, after 10mins, I turned her off... left her for a few mins... came back and..... nothing. the problem was back and this time with a vengence. Choke on, choke off it didn't matter. She just wasn't going to catch. I was churnign up the starter motor so I decided to leave it and give up. Downhearted and tearful, I walked away.

I spoke to my Dad about it (he has exactly the same bike) and he thought it could be the battery. It has enough juice to turn the starter motor but not spark the plugs. So we changed over the batteries. She started first time!! Tried to start Dads bike... that also started first time! So we deduced it's not the battery. We turned them both off, tried to start mine again... nothing... just the starter motor churning away again.

So now I come to you experts.... have you had this before? Do you know anyone who has had this issue before? Or do you know of a possible fix?

These are the things I have thought of...

Carbs... these need a clean or replacing. But then, surely she wouldn't start at all if these were wrong?

Plugs... Replace. Not all can go at the same time? And again, she wouldn't start at all if it were the plugs.

Air Filter... Perhaps a clean or replacment. Can't do any harm but I doubt it'll solve the issue.

Fuel Jets... A bit beyond my experience but if she can run then it would cause stuttering wouldn't it?

I really can't think what the problem is. My last ditch effort is to try and start her and take her to a garage and tell the guys to fix it.

I hope someone can shed some light on this issue because I'm missing out on all this great weather!!!

Yamaha FZS 600 Fazer ... in gold! 

Ride safe, and look out for the Rainbow of Death!

^{There're only 3 kinds of people in the world, those who can count, and those that can't.}

^{Roses are red, Violets are Blue, I'm a schizophrenic ..... and so am I!}

^{Take pity on the man who invented the drawing board, when he screwed up, he had nothing to fall back on.}

^{Stuff everything, I've always got my bike.}

Sorry about the Fazer, but at least the rest of the week's gonna be wet and windy...

Interesting fault you have there: intermittent but not completely random. A few further diagnostic questions:

1. When you're trying to start her, do you turn the ignition on and off a number of times or just leave it on and keep trying the starter button?

2. Do you use the killswitch to stop the engine, or just turn the ignition off?

3. Can you hear all the usual clicks and whirrs when the ignition is turned on?

4. Is there an alarm/immobiliser fitted?

5. Is there any hint that the engine's trying to catch, or is it just the starter flailing?

6. Can you smell petrol from the exhaust during/after trying to start her?

7. Can you turn the starter over with the lights and indicators on?

8. Have you checked the condition of the spark plugs?

Not sure how comfortable you are experimenting in the garage, but ideally you first want to check whether you're getting any fuel at all, or too much (the smell will usually tell you) and whether there's a spark while you're cranking the starter (take one of the plugs out and wedge it against frame or engine). Those'll narrow it down a bit from the starting point of needing the right quantities of air/fuel/compression/ignition all in the same place at the same time...

>> ex silens nox noctis <<

From the random nature of the fault, I would suspect electrics.  Could be as simple as an intermittent loose connector, or as fundamental as a knackered ECU.  A fuel fault would make it hard to start and run badly or not at all - it wouldn't be the on/off thing you're describing.  And as it runs fine when it does run, I think you can rule out anything serious and mechanical.  Don't do anything daft like strip the carbs, though.  When you get it back together, it still won't go and you won't have a clue whether it was something you did or not.  As you have access to an identical bike (and it would seem a tolerant owner), try swapping things like the coils and ECU with the other bike.  One thing at a time, and you'll find it eventually.  Good luck.

--

2003 ST1300 Pan Euro
1995 Yam XT600E
http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

In answer to your questions Endo....

1. When you're trying to start her, do you turn the ignition on and off a number of times or just leave it on and keep trying the starter button?

I've done both. First few times turning it off fully (even taking the keys out) then I just gave up and hit the button.

2. Do you use the killswitch to stop the engine, or just turn the ignition off?

I've only ever used the killswitch to test it still works, not after every ride.

3. Can you hear all the usual clicks and whirrs when the ignition is turned on?

Yep!! Fuel pump whirs and it all lights up

4. Is there an alarm/immobiliser fitted?

Nope

5. Is there any hint that the engine's trying to catch, or is it just the starter flailing?

It does occassionally catch but dies just after. It does this a lot before starting fully.

6. Can you smell petrol from the exhaust during/after trying to start her?

Yes, very pungent

7. Can you turn the starter over with the lights and indicators on?

Not tried this

8. Have you checked the condition of the spark plugs?

Yes, they seem fine

Yamaha FZS 600 Fazer ... in gold! 

Ride safe, and look out for the Rainbow of Death!

^{There're only 3 kinds of people in the world, those who can count, and those that can't.}

^{Roses are red, Violets are Blue, I'm a schizophrenic ..... and so am I!}

^{Take pity on the man who invented the drawing board, when he screwed up, he had nothing to fall back on.}

^{Stuff everything, I've always got my bike.}

This led me to believe it was a mixture problem. I thought there was too much fuel going in and flooding the plugs, hence me fiddling with the idle tap. sometimes when it started there was an almighty backfire which scared the hell outta me!!

Yamaha FZS 600 Fazer ... in gold! 

Ride safe, and look out for the Rainbow of Death!

^{There're only 3 kinds of people in the world, those who can count, and those that can't.}

^{Roses are red, Violets are Blue, I'm a schizophrenic ..... and so am I!}

^{Take pity on the man who invented the drawing board, when he screwed up, he had nothing to fall back on.}

^{Stuff everything, I've always got my bike.}

Other than that, you can probably discount all the charging-side electrics, as it doesn't appear to be a battery issue, so you're only really interested in the ignition system. Plugs, HT leads, coils, CDI, wiring or switches. Being methodical helps, but I'd start by cleaning and WD40ing all the switchgear and cut-out switches (clutch and sidestand), visually checking all the connectors and wiring, then swapping out the CDI (if your dad's feeling benevolent) and the coils. Testing the HT leads and the plugs is fairly straightforward, if a bit laborious: doesn't sound like they're the problem anyway, or you should get intermittent firing while the engine's running.

One thing to watch out for on Yamahas is that any self-diagnostic errors (throttle position sensor or whatever) generally get fed back to the tacho: when it's running, keep an eye on the rpm needle - if it goes through a regular pattern of movement that doesn't match what the engine speed is doing, it's trying to tell you something's wrong.

>> ex silens nox noctis <<

Oh, what's a CDI btw?

I'll have another look at the plugs, check the cut out switches (although if they are engaged (sidestand down) then the starter moter won't turn. The whole thing won't work so I'm guessing it's not that) and I'll inform my Dad about coils as I think he'd have a better understanding of it than me.

Yamaha FZS 600 Fazer ... in gold! 

Ride safe, and look out for the Rainbow of Death!

^{There're only 3 kinds of people in the world, those who can count, and those that can't.}

^{Roses are red, Violets are Blue, I'm a schizophrenic ..... and so am I!}

^{Take pity on the man who invented the drawing board, when he screwed up, he had nothing to fall back on.}

^{Stuff everything, I've always got my bike.}

Anyway, it's the black box (literally and figuratively) that manages the engine. Normally flattish, maybe 6"x6" and probably, as it's a Yam, located inside the front left fairing with a hefty connector block of wiring attached.

I have a feeling that may not be a bad place to start looking for the problem.

>> ex silens nox noctis <<

I think I'm going to have to give in and take her to the garage. My dad told me last night he was speaking to a guy who thinks he knows what the problem is. I'll take it down there, explain the situation and ask him to talk me through what he thinks it could be.

Yamaha FZS 600 Fazer ... in gold! 

Ride safe, and look out for the Rainbow of Death!

^{There're only 3 kinds of people in the world, those who can count, and those that can't.}

^{Roses are red, Violets are Blue, I'm a schizophrenic ..... and so am I!}

^{Take pity on the man who invented the drawing board, when he screwed up, he had nothing to fall back on.}

^{Stuff everything, I've always got my bike.}

Endo - when I said ECU I kind of meant 'black box thing that no-one understands'.  I didn't know whether Mazz's bike has a simple CDI or more complex engine management, so I said ECU as it's only 3 letters.  Y'all knew what I meant.

--

2003 ST1300 Pan Euro
1995 Yam XT600E
http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/