I was thoroughly razzed by a man in a BMW a few nights ago.  I'd followed him for about 5 miles down a B-road, had a few chances to overtake but he was travelling at a reasonable pace so I stayed behind him.  We get to town and line up at some traffic lights leading onto a roundabout.  Loads of space at the front of the lane, so I mosey alongside him ready for a quick sprint to the next lights.  As soon as the lights go to amber, he revs it like fun and we're neck and neck going for one lane at the exit.  Being as it was a roundabout, and wet, and evening rush hour, I gave in and let him through.  Why risk everything for a c**t?  He had a suit too - I think there's something about being a middle-ranking rep driving a middle-ranking car that makes some guys think they are heroes.  As we all know, real heoes don't need to prove it.  One of the positives about being - er - older is that you stop feeling the need to right every wrong and avenge every insult.  I would hate to break my bike, knee, back or head on account of teaching some twat a "lesson".

Anyway, I creamed him about 200 yards later, when he got temporarily stuck behind a council lorry.

--

2003 ST1300 Pan Euro
1995 Yam XT600E
http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

You have a bike, so you can make your point in the time-honoured manner - lots of right wrist, dump the clutch, and leave them.  (If it's a slow bike, just make sure you are in heavy traffic. )

Mine's slow in comparison... I''ll wait for the heavy traffic me thinks!

I just annoys the hell outta me you know. You can be the most defensive rider, take every single training course out there, go to race schools and pass with flying colours the whole lot... it just takes that one snot nosed teenager that passed his test 2 days ago and is hairing around with is mates to pull out on you and *BANG*. No amount of dusting down will convince your spirit to stop messing around, loose the wings and put the harp down and get back down here where it should be.

Yamaha FZS 600 Fazer ... in gold! 

Ride safe, and look out for the Rainbow of Death!

^{There're only 3 kinds of people in the world, those who can count, and those that can't.}

^{Roses are red, Violets are Blue, I'm a schizophrenic ..... and so am I!}

^{Take pity on the man who invented the drawing board, when he screwed up, he had nothing to fall back on.}

^{Stuff everything, I've always got my bike.}

I see your point and completely agree with you but what I meant was even if you ride defensively, predict all the possible out comes, judge distances correctly and so on... if you're passing a car on the outside lane and it just pulls out without warning (for example it was sitting behind a Middle Lane Hogger and getting pissed off so he just pulls out with out thinking) and side swipes you. I don't think there is any amount of practice you can have for a situation like that... is there?

But like I said, I agree with your "Everyone is out to kill you" riding style. It's true to a certain extent. I think I've had more near misses in my short riding life than my 5 years of driving cars.

Yamaha FZS 600 Fazer ... in gold! 

Ride safe, and look out for the Rainbow of Death!

^{There're only 3 kinds of people in the world, those who can count, and those that can't.}

^{Roses are red, Violets are Blue, I'm a schizophrenic ..... and so am I!}

^{Take pity on the man who invented the drawing board, when he screwed up, he had nothing to fall back on.}

^{Stuff everything, I've always got my bike.}

I would say yes.  It's not so much what you do when someone pulls out; it's what you are doing in the 10 minutes beforehand.

Scenario: you are on a dual carriageway in lane 3 doing your legal 70, passing a line of cars in lane 2 doing 60.  Position: you are as far to the right of your lane as is consistent with safety (bearing in mind debris from the centre reservation), as this gives you the maximum clearance from what is always going to be a potential hazard.  Observation: you are watching the cars as you pass them, especially the drivers' head and hand movements which could indicate a decision to pull out.  Traffic sense: if you see a situation developing where the following cars might be getting frustrated and possibly wanting to pull out, take extra care, slow down a bit, be prepared for the unexpected.[1]  Speed and gear: you are travelling at a speed which gets you past traffic without undue delay, while not creating extra danger by going too fast (any relative speed of +/- 30mph when the vehicles are 6ft apart is lunatic in my book); you are in a gear that gives you the control and power to shut off or accelerate quickly to get out of any dangerous situation developing.  Machine control: your hands are on the grips and near enough the levers to brake/clutch in a nanosecond should that be necessary, and you have been riding long enough not to panic if you need to pull some emergency braking in such a situation.  Plus a little old-fashioned experience - I find now that I can tell when a car is about to pull out before the driver moves a muscle.  It feels like instinct, but it is probably just years of observation and attention giving you an ability to predict.  Like reading someone's body language, which it is like really.  This is a skill that anyone can develop over time and as the miles pass by.  You get to a point where other road users' behaviour is predictable most of the time.

Taking all of that, a) you will probably see driver's intention before the car moves into your lane and take appropriate action, and b) if he does try to crowd you out, you have the maximum distance between you (by riding well to the right) which gives you more time to make and act on a decision.  In 99% of cases, this will protect you from the idiot motorist and let you ride longer and safer.

In the other 1% - well, shit happens, as you well know.  The 1% is what body armour and a good helmet are for.

[1] I once saved the wife and self from a serious accident, apparently by magic (according to her) as I demostrated the ability to see through solid trees and a grass bank.  Looking back, it was actually very simple: fast A-road, sweeping bends, light traffic, then no traffic coming the other way for a couple of miles (huh?), round bend comes front of tractor - the cars behind him must have been waiting ages - road from their direction is straightening out - some **** is bound to try an overtake - slow right down - yup, there he is!  Lorry overtaking tractor round blind bend, taking up full width of road - if I hadn't slowed down to 40, we would have been flattened.  Admission - yes, I was going too fast to start with.

--

2003 ST1300 Pan Euro
1995 Yam XT600E
http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

Again, excellent words of wisdom! I guess my experience hasn't built up to such a high degree. Though I like to think I'm taking all the necessary precautions, there are still a lot of things I need to learn.

One thing I'm getting better at though.... judging when a car isn't indicationg but isn't going straight over the roundabout. It happens pretty much everyday now and you just need to look at the driver to know where he's going.

Seeing as this is the Ignorant Drivers thread, can I put up a rant about deliberate, dangerous

SUN wasn't the greatest weather for a ride out but we did one anyway. My Dad and 3 other riders and me. We had a small ride around the area with a guy who wanted a go on a Goldwing. So we took him round, dropped him off and proceeded to Box Hill to meet up with some fellow bikers. On the way my Dad was cut up by an arrogant prick who couldn't be bothered to stay behind him. The car driver then over takes our female rider, nearly hitting her front wheel as he comes back in and causing her to swerve. Next up is a lad on a 125 (same bike as me), again, he cuts him up with no regard for anyones safety. I'm after that but I'd already passed the roundabout and turned off. Dad, being at the back, sees all this and charges up after him to have a word. He passes him, moves infront as the approach a junction and BANG!, he hits my Dad. He actually rear ended him, deliberately. Dad didn't slam on his brakes, he was just approaching a Roundabout and needed to slow. Dad held it but now he's pi$$ed. I mean, you would be too. Being cut up, seeing a learner and a female rider nearly taken off by the same car then being shunted I think anyone would be. So he stops. Now there's cause for details to be swapped, two vehicles have collided and there could be damage to either one. Just as he stops... BANG, he's hit again. Well, you can imagine how f**ked off he is now. He gets off to have a word and the car speeds up and aims for him! AIMS for him! I couldn't believe it!

Anyways, everyone was ok, no injuries done but it makes my think. What if Dad had come off? Or any of our other riders? Woud he have stopped? I doubt it. My Dad could've come off, been hit by the same car or something and I'd be fatherless, all because some **** didn't want to wait behind patiently.

God it makes me angry.

Now I'm not saying my Dad was right, he probably wasn't. Road rage isn't something anyone enjoys or any good can come from. But I can see why he tried to slow him down and have a word. I would've done (probably get that streek form him actually!)

Anyway, rant over.

Yamaha FZS 600 Fazer ... in gold! 

Ride safe, and look out for the Rainbow of Death!

^{There're only 3 kinds of people in the world, those who can count, and those that can't.}

^{Roses are red, Violets are Blue, I'm a schizophrenic ..... and so am I!}

^{Take pity on the man who invented the drawing board, when he screwed up, he had nothing to fall back on.}

^{Stuff everything, I've always got my bike.}

1. Your Dad was probably in the wrong for chasing and trying to confront the guy, but we've all done that at some point - it's not a hanging offence.

2. However, deliberately aiming a motor vehicle at another person most certainly is.  You had witnesses - I would have taken his number and gone straight to the police.  If someone runs into the back of another road user, unless there are exceptional circumstances, it's that person's fault.  Twice, and it starts looking deliberate rather than accidental.  The car driver wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.  DWDCA for the slice-up of the two bikers and the FIRST rear-ender, DD for the SECOND rear-ender and the attempt on your father's life by running him over.  A good lawyer would have him off the road for years, and possibly in prison.

3. No riding method, however "advanced" can account for a homicidal cager - that's probably in the 1% I mentioned earlier.

Glad everyone is OK, though.

--

2003 ST1300 Pan Euro
1995 Yam XT600E
http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

Yeah, he's fine and so's the bike. Bit scary though. shame he didn't get the plate however, like you say, he could've gone to jail or even have to pay compensation (I don't know, if you're a good lawyer I'm sure you'd find something, traumatic experiance or something)

Oh well, it's over now, nothing more can be done.

Yamaha FZS 600 Fazer ... in gold! 

Ride safe, and look out for the Rainbow of Death!

^{There're only 3 kinds of people in the world, those who can count, and those that can't.}

^{Roses are red, Violets are Blue, I'm a schizophrenic ..... and so am I!}

^{Take pity on the man who invented the drawing board, when he screwed up, he had nothing to fall back on.}

^{Stuff everything, I've always got my bike.}