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RE: Would you buy a Japanese Harley-Davidson?

AlanMcT — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 12:51:39 GMT

Goebbels, Hitler's propaganda minister, said, 'Give me the media in any country for 3 months and the people will think what I want them to'. Okay that was paraphrased because I can't be ****d to go looking for my book at the moment. But who would have though just a few years after our parents fought the Germans and the Japenese we would be buying BMW's and Honda's. It is all down to how it's sold. If Rolls Royces were made in New Guinea people would still buy them as long as they were not associated with head hunters and fat naked women with tattoos (apologies to those born in New Guinea by the way) but were shown in ads as wealthy people swanning around in exotic locations. It's all an image thing. Most of those who buy 4 x 4's don't know how to select 4 wheel drive. Most of those who will be queueing up to by Fireblades, ZX10s and R1's this year will never go over 80mph or lean more than 20 degrees. I find it fun to race people on exotic machinery because they can never stay up with my 16 year old VFR750 even when on paper they have an extra 50 horses!

There would be an initial downturn and reaction from Harley owners but part of the sale to Honda would be to get the 'by in' of the existing Harley staff. They would state how 'Harleys are still going to be Harleys, Still 100% USA steel' etc etc. Then gradually the styling will be altered and eventually some of the parts be made in China or the Phillipines. Then when everyone is used to the idea Harley's will get made abroad. It all depends on how it is sold to the media, repackaged by the media and sold to the public. The Japanese took over the big studios in Hollywood and everyone has accepted that - why not Harley?

RE: Would you buy a Japanese Harley-Davidson?

Black Dog — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:48:25 GMT

This is just so ironic!

In the 50s and 60s motorcycling took off in the States when a lot of the GIs returned from WW2 and wanted a bit of excitement in their lives. For a while, there was a huge sub-culture centred around the Hell's Angels MC, and the image of motorcycling to the "straights" in American society was one of unbridled filth, violence, permissiveness and lawlessness. The image at the centre of it all was the Harley - especially the "chopped hog" favoured (should that be "favored"?) by the Angels, stripped of all the inessential bits, big, dirty, loud and fast.

Honda saw this as a massive threat to their developing market in the USA, which was mainly small commuter models and mid-range all-purpose workhorses. Honda's problem was that they just weren't bad enough, and in a land where only big and loud would do, they looked into their crystal balls and could see their market wither away. So what did Honda do? Instead of developing big, bad Hondas with loud pipes and bad-*** attitude, they went in for some heavy marketing to try and turn the customer away from the Angel image. The result was the legendary "You Meet The Nicest People On A Honda" campaign. Cue a set of clean, oil-free quiet multis, with riders in white chinos and Ben Shermans, nice-looking virginal girlfriends on the back, on their way to a nice Church prayer supper, then home in time for tea.

It worked. The Japs have not conquered the US, but given the Americans' fanatical devotion to national brands, they have done better than anyone expected. The proof is what has happened over at HD. Modern Harley ads emphasis the "bad" heritage (current slogan advertising 0% finance - "Let Us Help You Stick It To The Man") but the stubble on the models is just so, the jeans only slightly ripped, and the photography is art-school quality. Harley has been corporate for a long time now (although I didn't know they had their own finance operation), and so in a way Honda have won the battle for the motorcyclist's soul.

And yet the division is still there - big, bad, all-American Harley and clean, smooth Japanese Honda (even if Harleys are now clean and mainstream, and Buell has had to take the role of mad, bad and dangerous to know; and Hondas are winning races around the world and kicking *** in a most ungentlemanly way). If I were an American biker (which thank the Lord I'm not, Sir), I would be buying as many ratty old Harleys as my purse could afford, confident in the knowledge that if Honda ever take over Harley, my investment would treble in a year. As long as it was made in Milwaukee, under the ownership of someone faintly related to Willy G, it would be like money in the bank.

Honda taking over Harley-D? You might as well suggest that a German car company favoured by Hitler could own a British brand like Bentley! Or that Land Rover would sell out to Henry Ford's little lot!

Not possible.

Would you buy a Japanese Harley-Davidson?

roadhoover — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:04:15 GMT

Take over speculation afoot

All American icon Harley Davidson, symbol of freedom and attitude to millions of bikers across the globe, they who made headsarves popular for men and are rumoured to be the target of a take-over by the worlds largest motorcycle manufacturer and possible future potential Skynet Corporation (headed by the truly amazing 'Asimo' no relation to Isaac). Honda.

Harley-Davidson, Inc. is the parent company for the group of companies doing business as Harley-Davidson Motor Company, which includes Buell Motorcycle Company and Harley-Davidson Financial Services. Harley-Davidson Motor Company, are the only major US-based motorcycle manufacturer, producing heavyweight large capacity motorcycles and offers a huge catalogue of motorcycle parts, accessories, apparel, and general merchandise. With reported sales of $5.8billion last year

In typical inscrutable style, Honda officials were tight lipped about the rumours, refusing to either deny or confirm them.

On the face of it, the move seems highly unlikely, but if the takeover was to happen, then Honda will account for approximately 60 per cent of the large capacity bike market in addition to the myriad of small capacity licensing deals it has across the orient and India

The rumours did nothing for Honda shares apparently and experts feel that the takeover (if it were to happen) would not be well received by the majority of the potential Harley buying audience.

Harley owners are fiercely loyal and would almost certainly balk at buying a Japanese Harley Davidson. It’s fair to say from most quarters that the brand does not sell on its technological achievements or indeed progress but more on its perceived lifestyle image and individuality which are deemed quintessentially American and are fiercely protected.

All the major manufacturers have a large capacity custom cruiser machine in their line up and it could be argued that in terms of performance and dare it be said style they are actually a better machine. Cruiser sales are actually rising slowly throughout Europe apparently, but true aficionados tend to plump for the ‘potato potato’ soundtrack and the black and orange shield every time

Good luck to the marketing personnel on that particular project no matter what huge budget was chucked at it.

Only recently H-D were reportedly in talks with another iconic brand, Ducati motorcycles; with a view to a strategic merger along with a desire to consolidate it’s brand and sales in the booming and increasingly affluent market that is China.

Harley Davidson is not alone under the spotlight of merger and takeover speculation. Second largest Indian motorcycle manufacturer Bajaj has apparently approached both Triumph and Ducati with a view to working together. This seems unlikely but Triumph in particular already has a manufacturing plant in Chonburi, Thailand which will shortly be producing a purported 25% of models and associated components by the end of this year. The sub continental and Asian manufacturing potential it would appear cannot be ignored.

If the rumour is true and it does come to pass, hang on to that all American HD you have now because used prices will almost certainly go stellar.

What do you think? Would the brand ownership influence your buying decisions or is this just a trait peculiar to H-D and its owners? Would you buy a Triumph that was no longer ‘made in England’ or a Ducati owned by an Indian conglomerate? Have your say .